The Primal Diet

My experiences with the Primal diet of Aajonus Vonderplanitz over the past 3 years. Creating awareness of eating Primal (including raw animal foods).

The Primal Diet

By Scott Wheeler

After experiencing 3 years of ‘Primal dieting’, I wish to share my experiences and help others to pursue the same interests. In November of this year I will travel to Hawaii for the rainbow raw olympic games. There I will meet with Aajonus Vonderplanitz, creator of the Primal Diet to discuss the possibility of him coming to Australia to perform a seminar and private consultations, if we can gather enough interest. The purpose of this blog is therfore to create this awareness. Stay tuned.

After 3 years on a 100% raw PRIMAL DIET, I can now begin to discuss the details of my dietary evolution, and hopefully assist others in their quest for supreme nutrition. I was once an advocate of dietary protocols such as the regular macronutrient juggling low carb(Atkins), and high protein 'phase shift' (Metabolic diet) diet types, before becoming frustrated with the lack of objective results. Research and experimentation lead me away from these highly processed and supplement reliant diets and towards the slightly more practical and natural Paleolithic or caveman diets such as The Paleo Diet (Loren Cordain). Still not convinced, I attempted to consume as natural and unprocessed a diet as possible, finding that the less I intervened into a food's naturally raw state, the better it could be digested, assimilated and utilized. Was raw vegan the answer? This seemed to make sense since to eat food raw must mean the elimination of foods that "cannot" be eaten raw such as meat. The cleasnsing and detoxification which was expected on such a diet was encouraging, but the loss of lean mass and the apparent lack of regenerative properties was not. I lost 20 kilos of bodyweight but unfortunately that was not my objective, as an ELG analysis of my bodyfat percentage revealed that 2/3rds of this loss was lean mass ( fluid, muscle, connective tissue and bone). I quickly realised that to properly regenerate during the cotinued cleansing process of detoxification, I needed to eat meat. Enzyme Nutrition (Edward Howell) and the works of Weston A Price became my next focus. According to these guys, raw foods including those from animal sources were not only often consumed by traditional cultures (and animals) but were vital to their survival and evolutionary progression. My physical status instantly improved upon the inclusion of raw animal foods into my diet, but the social phobia of the 'dangers' of microbes and parasites remained (especially when it's advocates such as Sally Fallon in NT were still unsure) until Aajous Vonderplanitz came along. The works of Aajonus completely dispelled the danger, and with safety assured I went about taking the raw food issue very seriously. As a Fitness Clinician (I.A.R.T) my basic philosophy of exercise is to perform as little as possible in order to achive the greatest possible adaptive response. In other words exercise efficacy and efficiency is my primary objective, to find an ideal dose/response ratio in exercise presciption. In order to limit general fatigue I have to avoid superfluous exercise or work. The Primal Diet diet satisfies this same principal in a nutritional capacity. In effect, it creates a positive net energy load by allowing me to properly digest, assimilate and utilize, all of my required macro and micro nutrients, with minimal effort ie. with the use of natural food enzymes, rather than to burden my own bodily resources with the manufacture of exogenous enzymes. I will elabrate on this in future articles on this blog, as well as to explain the additional benefits of a diet high in microbial activity. I know have a wife and two young children who enjoy the benefits of raw food nutrition and would like to see many more do the same.

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COMMENTS - 60 Responses

  1. I’m so there if it happens! Do you eat all raw foods? Please tell us more about your diet and exercise regime. I follow the warrior diet and have been having good success so far.

  2. 2. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 7th, 2008 at 10:40 am

    Hi Louise. I’ll update my bio as soon as I have time,to let you know everything. Yes I eat a 100% raw Primal diet. My diet mainly consists of raw meat ( beef,lamb, chicken,kangaroo) all pastured, organic or wild game, raw dairy (milk, kefir, butter, cream) all pasture fed, raw eggs (pastured, organic), green vegetable juices ( all raw, fresh and organic), honey (raw, unheated, organic) and small amounts of fruits and vegetables all raw and organic. I studied exercise science with the I.A.R.T (International Association of Resistance Trainers)in Canada and am a certified Fitness Clinician. My exercise is predominantly of a resistance nature but the structure is dynamic and as such is constantly changing depending on my objective.
    Aajonus is keen to travel down here but requires confirmation of a certain number of private consultations and workshop attendees. He is easily the worlds foremost authority on this type of diet and his self ascribed iridology. I have consulted with him on the prospect of learning his techniques in a clinical setting, and will do this within the next 4 years in Thailand.

  3. Hello Scott and Lousie, yes I too would be interested in learning more from you or Aajonus! I have read alot about the primal diet on the internet but prefer hearing from people who have actually done it - or live by it with great success before I try it out myself. I am also keen to learn more improved and efficient ways of excercising, to build strength and tone muscle so I am all eyes and ears, when you get the chance to tell us :)

    when you do can you include all the positive experiences, but also any more challenging experiences you have had or know others to have had, the more information the better!

    Thanks so much

  4. Scott… what about food poisoning? Do you have an iron gut? Wow. How do you eat the raw meats… like the Japanese, very thinly sliced or like steak tartare? THAT is impressive! Raw eggs and fish (sashimi) is do-able, but meat…. Hmmm… not sure I could do it. Do you have recipes to share? What about soaked nuts and grains? Sorry about the questions, but I’m so impressed, I thought I was getting all prehistoric with the warrior diet! We (well Sophie and I!) want details. Maybe you could show us what you eat in a typical day and specifics about your workouts, I’m focusing on muscle gain as a personal goal.

  5. 5. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 10th, 2008 at 5:23 am

    Louise…no I don’t have an iron gut. There is no credible evidence available which suggests that consuming clean raw food is dangerous. In fact, to the contrary, every documented case of food bourne illness can be more easily traced to cooked/pastuerised or processed foods than it can be blamed on ‘raw’ food. Sally can testify to this as it relates to milk, raw meat is in the same beaurocratic tangle. Logic alone proves that raw foods are safe, however my next article will address the microbe/parasite myth further.
    I eat my meat in a variety of ways.Whole,sliced,diced,chopped,ground (minced), pate or liquified.
    Your apprehension towards raw meat is not all your fault. It is socially based, mainly through the media as a result of processed food manufacturer’s being able to infiltrate and abuse government policy. Go with your instincts and logic on this one and try to forget the years of brainwashing.
    I have plenty of recipes, none however contain grains. Nuts are fine but I consume them in a nut formula which negates the effects of enzyme inhibitors just as soaking does. I blend the nuts or seeds with raw unsalted butter, raw eggs, and unheated honey.
    I will show you a typical day of mine ( nutrition + exercise) in a future post, but as individualism is the governing principle of exercise science, I wouldn’t prescribe the same for you. Contact me about a private consultation if you prefer.

  6. I’m searching to find the body’s natural status and am really interested in this area…

    How does the Primal raw foods Diet affect certain people’s constition (eg the Vata types in Ayurvedic context) where raw foods aggravate imbalances in the body?

  7. 7. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 10th, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    Sue…you’re searching to find ‘your’ body’s natural status, and I applaud you. We each have a unique constitution and our health prescription must have an individualised approach as well. This is true of each aspect of health, be it physical such as exercise, nutrition or mental health (personality). Your chosen lifestyle will also be influencial on health prescription. Considering that individualism is the governing principle of everything health related, then The Primal Diet must also address the fact that people exist with differing requirements, just as in exercise where an individual’s body type (somatotype) must be determined and so to in the Ayurveda view on vata types (Doshas).
    There are 3 basic blood types to consider when determining which raw foods someone should eat regularly on the Primal Diet. There are also some food combining ‘rules’ to enhance proper utilization. There is also the individual’s objective to consider.
    I do however warn against metabolic typing, as this prohibits or restricts certain foods from certain metabolic types which are not warranted, and also advises the use of foods which form toxicity, and would therefore preferably not be consumed.
    I will expand upon each of these issues in future posts.

  8. Hi Scott
    I’d love to hear some of your recipes and experiences when you first started to consume raw meat. I’ve been doing a little experimenting with this recently by adding some grated frozen raw liver to my morning smoothie (which is based on raw egg yolks) - so far so good. I also love marinated raw steak (marinated in rice vinegar or lemon juice) but not sure if this counts as raw or not.
    Inspired to hear from someone who follows a raw food diet but is not a vegan. Looking forward to your future posts.

  9. Actually its pretty hard to avoid eating contaminated chicken meat, especially bugs campylobacter and salmonella unless you are gutting your own and avoid disturbing gut contents onto meat…as for milk undulating fever was a pretty good reason to pasteurise.
    Beef carcass is said to be sterile however.
    Good luck

  10. 10. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 13th, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    Marie..you’re right. Actually it is futile and therefore pointless to avoid eating or being exposed to campylobacter, salmonella and e.coli (and countless other microbes) since they exist everywhere, including in substantial numbers in our digestive tracts, the very place some might have you beleive their presence would make you ill. As you state yourself, ironically this is the place they are also found in all animals, including those processed for consumption. This is true for cattle also, they are not a magically sterile animal.
    The point being, is it logically possible for bacteria to ’cause’ disease? This was a myth perpetuated in 1928-1938 by two giant food manufacturers to prove that their cooked and processed foods were cleaner, healthier and safer than raw foods. Their researched failed to achieve this.
    Bacteria, viruses and parasites are a symptom of disease, not a cause. They become pathogenic only in a toxic, non-organic “cooked” environment.

  11. I believe the three said micro-organisms are unique to the digestive tracts of warm blooded animals, and don’t exist everywhere. Modern medicine would argue that bacteria can cause infection…whether you choose to believe this is your right! Actually some microbes produce deadly toxins that no amount of cooking can destroy.
    Like I said good luck! I look forward to reading about how your iron gut keeps up with it all.

  12. 12. Cathy Mifsud
    Aug 16th, 2008 at 10:49 am

    Hello Scott,
    This is really interesting especially your last post. So if a person went raw from a 50% cooked diet could they go straight into eating raw meats without fear of parasites? I do eat raw fish including my daughter and just started ( after a craving ) eating a little raw beef but I soak it first in whey overnight as Sally Fallon suggests in NT.
    So do you ferment anything other than milk? Do you include the more difficult vegies to digest like brocoli, cabbage, kale in your raw diet also?

  13. 13. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 17th, 2008 at 9:48 pm

    Of course I don’t mean they literally exist ‘everywhere’, just potentially they can. They can certainly proliferate in the digestive tracts of warm blooded animals, but they’re definately not limited to this environment. Remember the digestive tract has an ‘exit point’ as well. Feacal matter leaves the digestive tract taking micobes with it and returns them to the earth ( and to whatever might come into contact with it ie. potentially anything and everything). Modern medecine certainly argues that bacteria can cause disease, unfortunately with no scientific basis. Some microbes do produce toxins that no amount of cooking can destroy, so why bother trying?

  14. 14. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 17th, 2008 at 11:10 pm

    Hi Cathy,yes absolutely! You need not fear parasites, they only eat weak, damaged and decaying tissue ie. conditions caused by accumulated toxins. In a healthy body they cannot survive. They just do their job and leave. Analogy:
    Parasite infestation is a major problem for domesticated animals consuming a ‘humanized’ diet. Ever heard of a wild animal requiring worming out (or vaccination for that matter)? Parasite fear is my major critisism of NT. Considering that none of the traditional cultures referred to held this fear, I believe it is largely a socially based phobia. Raw meat shoud be treated with the same credence as other raw animal products such as dairy. Choose the best quality grass fed, organic products you can find. The more people I speak too, the more I find with an instinctual craving for raw beef. Funny how the body knows. I have often offered my children (who do not hold social phobias because of their age) the choice between cooked and raw meat, including chicken, and they always choose raw. Their health speaks volumes.
    I ferment (pickle) condiments such as ginger and capsicum for use in small amounts. If I consume either leafy greens or cruciferous vegetables I prefer to do so juiced. (my other critisism of NT).

  15. Hi Scott
    Just a few points - not critiscms - but would love your feedback regarding this as you have obviously spent a lot of time researching a raw diet that includes animal products.
    Traditional cultures did not have access to modern juicers so would not have consumed leafy greens or cruciferous veges juiced. Would you suggest lactofermentation as another viable option?
    Although I’m not a proponent of the germ theory, my recent purchase of a composter and worm farm inspired me to do a little bit of research into composting. The Chinese didn’t compost, they applied their ‘waste’ (aka human manure or ‘night soil’ directly to crops). Traditional Chinese food is always cooked, often for extended periods of time. Nothing appears to have been eaten raw including fruit - they must have known that eating raw food could result in some nasty parasitic infections due to the use of their night soil fertiliser. Apparently if human (and other carniverous animal waste) is composted correctly all pathogens are destroyed in the process making it safe to apply to food crops as fertiliser (Joseph Jenkins book Humanure is a recc. read if anyone is interested in composting, it’s available free online at http://weblife.org/humanure/default.html).
    Coming accross this information has led me to rethink my thoughts on germs and infection a little - not to the point of paranoia as complete germaphobia has its health drawbacks (Hygeine Hypothosis and the development of allergies). What are your thoughts and/or experiences regarding this?
    Warm regards
    Sarah

  16. 16. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 18th, 2008 at 6:30 am

    Hi Sarah,first of all feel free to offer any critisisms. They are an important part of healthy debate. On your first point regarding juicing. Tradition shouldn’t be an excuse to disclude any recent improvements in our diet. No element of any traditional diet ‘always’ existed, each had to be percieved, conceived, conceptualized and invented and then further improved upon during it’s (and our)evolution. Proceeding generations constantly improved upon ‘Traditional’ techniques such as in the evolution of dairy for example. Post industrialization, many of these so called improvements have proven to be faulty (such as pasteurisation) however juicing does not fall into this category for the most part. Juicer types are important. Lactofermentation of veges is reasonable when juicing is not available. Juicing is one of our generation’s gifts which will become ‘Traditional’ over time.
    On you second point, if we are to assume that the feacal matter contained pathogens that would have been harmful once returning to the soil, then we must also assume that they already existed within the person who expelled the waste. If no harm was done in the first place, there is no reason to assume harm in the second. Bacteria are ‘used’ reather than destroyed during composting. They stay only so long as there is adequate decomposing materials for them to consume. The way the Chinese did it was the more ecological and natural way to return waste to the earth, just as all animals do. I dont believe this is the reason that the Chinese tend to cook all of their food, I think it’s just social conditioning, the same as the rest of the world.

  17. 17. Cathy Mifsud
    Aug 18th, 2008 at 8:15 am

    Hello again Scott
    I love juicing but wont do it because I go orange the next day ( anything colorful ) even from a small glass unless its many days between juices.
    Isn’t a little cooking just the same evolution as juicers?
    I find cooked foods in winter are especially delicious and warming, like cake and raw cream. Pumpkin soup made with bone broth. Other times I crave lamb shank casserole mainly in winter time. How does raw lamb shank taste?
    Another thing I prefer about lacto fermentation to juicing is that a little is made to go a very long way where as juicing is the opposite.
    So in winter time do you and your children really enjoy raw chicken?
    Raw foods don’t satistfy me for very long, mind you I’m no expert but when I eat raw tuna for example an hour later I need to eat again. Do you have to eat lots when on a raw diet that includes meat?
    Also is it possible that meat from animals needing grain during droubt could become contaminated with parasites and could this infect people who may be run down or ill at the time of consuming it?
    I’m from a very dry area and even though I eat organic / biodynamic meats and eggs the animals are fed grain for many months a year, so unsure how safe this meat is raw.

  18. 18. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 18th, 2008 at 11:21 pm

    Hi Cathy. Wow, you turn orange the next day? Do you know why? Is it carotenemia (harmless) or something else that you are aware of, maybe kidney related? I would be interested to know. Does this also happen when you eat the vegetables whole?
    Yes, cooking food is evolutionary but has proven to cause mineral and enzyme mutilation. Juicing does not do this (closed case crush press). Regarding vegetebles, the argument is that lightly steaming breaks down cellulose for easier utilization. Juicing does a much better job by pre-masticating and removing the plant cellulose for much better utilization, whilst leaving enzymes intact.
    Only since eating 100% raw foods have I been able to cope well with extreme cold. Raw lamb shank is delicious. Raw food doesn’t necessarily mean cold food. Most of my food is eaten at room temperature. My chidren and myself have discovered enjoyment in foods as a result of their health giving proprties, not just taste or flavour. All of the cravings you mention can be subtituted with raw foods.
    Lactofermentation of whole or partly whole foods gives the elusion of quantity because of the fibrous content. Raw Juice has a much higher concentration of vitamins, minerals and enzymes.
    This is true of all raw foods as opposed to their cooked counterparts, and is also the reason why usually less raw food is required to create satiety. However this is relative to individualism. Some people will consume much more raw food and ‘expell’ very little waste initially, indicating the status of health.
    Except for birds (chickens etc.) no animals need grain. Cattle fed hay or silage during winter (or drought) are better. 100% grass fed is best. However, when this is not available, I have happily eaten non-organic ’supermarket’ beef, lamb and chicken with no problems. I only eat the muscle meat though. As most toxins store in organ and glandular tissue (and bone) I avoid these if they are not organic/biodynamic.

  19. 19. Justin Otherjon
    Aug 19th, 2008 at 3:47 am

    I have been eating a high raw diet for about a year. I never was Vegan on this diet, always adding a some raw eggs. I found that that this wasn’t really adequate. Eggs for me weren’t very digestible. More than a few would give me gas of the worse sort! Raw milk wasn’t available and I’m not sure I could tolerate it, as I am allergic to whey proteins. Recently, I tried some raw chicken for the first time. I marinated a chopped up Cornish Hen in lime juice and ate it. The experience was illuminating, leading me to consider that I was possibly deficient in something on the diet I was following. Or was the meat acting merely as a stimulant? The persistent sense of well being afterward didn’t seem like the effects of a stimulant. I am not sure that I will add much raw meat to my diet, but I am having to rethink a lot of philosophical things as the idea that vegetarianism isn’t viable goes against imposed lifelong assumptions.

    I still don’t think that the parasite issue is not a serious one. When one looks at specifics, on realizes that there are a lot of different strange and harmful parasitic organisms. One should be careful about basing life on generalities of blind faith.
    Lack of infection could be just a matter of luck rather than immunity. Recently, the CDC tested a large number of Supermarket meats for Toxoplasmosis and found it only in pork(4 in 2000 samples, I believe) You could potentially eat raw pork every day for a year and a half without being exposed. If you weren’t healthy enough, then what? There are a lot more nasty infective agents than this. Parasite load is supposed to be a significant contributor to the decline and death of predators. Von der Planitz claims to have “cleansing crises” even after many years of raw eating. Suppose instead, its just infections from raw meat?
    One of the reasons I am considering meat is the weight loss I’ve experienced. I don’t mind going from 22% to 15% body fat, but would rather not have lost lean body mass.

    I am interested in whether you have gained back the weight you lost.

  20. 20. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 19th, 2008 at 7:56 am

    Hi Justin, sounds like your finding your way. Eggs are ususally the easiest raw protein food to digest (doing so in as little as 20 minutes). Could the gas have been a product of combining the eggs with say, friut or vegetables? I’m glad you have had an enlightening experience with raw chicken. Most people never allow themselves the chance. I find it doubtful that meat could act as a stimulant, unless you’re suggesting that the meat contained a chemical stimulant of some sort. It is quite normal to have apprehensions about eating raw meat, as you say, you have been told not to do so most of your life. If you are philisophically minded, check your premises.There are many contradictions in the parsasite/microbe fallacy.
    Parasites exist. They consume dead and decaying tissue from their hosts. When they are done, they leave (or are unable to survive). Therefore they are healthful rather than harmful. This is not a mystical assertion, it is a factual one. No part of what I say or do is blind acceptance induced by feeling in the absence of evidence or proof. Keeping an active mind is essential. If you arive at contradictions, check your premises, you will find an error in your thinking.
    The argument that Aajonus’ detoxification phases are ‘infections’ is a common one. Either way, they perform more good than harm. His health proves that.
    Raw meat is the only catalyst for proper cellular regeneration. Raw vegan diets may posess similar cleansing and detoxification properties, but do not offer full cellular regeneration. A look at any raw vegan will illustrate their inability to maintan muscle mass. Considering meat is the right option for you if you can overcome your apprehension.
    I gained back 10 kilos of muscle. I know weigh a muscular 80kg at 10% bodyfat (by ELG analysis).

  21. Hello all,

    Ive been trying lots of raw meat lately as I am intrigued by the Primal Diet. I always eat my egg yolks raw, but tend to cook the whites because I had a terrible experience trying to digest them once, and I find cooked egg whites much more filling! In terms of meat I am very happy to eat raw mince (i find it requires less jaw action then tougher cuts), raw liver grated up and mixed in with my vegies, raw fish is ok but not as satisfying as raw meat. Thats what works for me anyway. I do mix up raw meat with slow cooked meats, particularly the meat left over from making all my bone broths, however I try to eat most raw. I am yet to try raw chicken and think i might now after Justins experience :). I have to say though, that although i enjoy some celery juice each day, I do absolutely love lots of fresh steamed vegies with butter and herbs, and I would find that very hard to give up.

    Also Scott I am interested in knowing where you are based in terms of maybe organising an exercise consultation? I am in Sydney…..

    Thanks!

  22. 22. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 20th, 2008 at 6:43 am

    Hi Sophie, that’s great to hear, I was once intrigued by the Primal Diet, now I’m totally consumed.
    How did you eat your eggs when you experienced discomfort? I find that poking a small hole in either end and sucking them from the shell is both the best for digestion and the most satisfying. If you whip or beat them (without the addition of milk, cream or coconut cream) many of the enzymes are lost via oxidization. This could create digestive difficulties.
    You most likely prefer raw red meat because it is the one that develops blood and muscle tissue best. The body knows what the body needs. Definately give chicken a go though. Maybe sashimi style with some lime juice and coconut cream!
    Your love of veges sounds like a craving for fat, ie butter. As Sally says, vegetables are really just a vehicle for butter. Ha ha. What about just fresh raw herbs and butter. Melt your butter by placing it in a glass jar and immersing it in mildly hot water ( no hotter than your finger can stand ) for 5 minutes. Create a sauce to pour over your raw meat meal. Just a suggestion…

  23. Are you concerned about biotin deficiency at all? Avidin in raw egg white can bind dietary and intestinally produced biotin. I’ve heard some raw foodists say its made up for by the extra biotin in the egg yolk, but I remmember reading a mercola article saying that avidin binds up to a thousand times its weight in biotin. I have searched but cant find the reference to this. The article below shows how biotin deficiency was discovered by feeding rats dried egg white.
    Biotin is an essential micronutrient for all mammals and is a member of the B complex group of vitamins. Biotin was discovered in nutritional experiments that revealed a factor in many foodstuffs that was capable of curing the scaly dermatitis, hair loss, and neurologic signs induced in rats fed dried egg whites.

    “Avidin is a glycoprotein found in egg whites and binds biotin very specifically and tightly. From an evolutionary standpoint, avidin probably serves as a antibacterial in egg whites because it is resistant to a broad range of bacterial proteases in both the free and biotin-bound forms.

    Because it is resistant to digestive enzymes from the pancreas dietary avidin binds to dietary biotin and prevents its absorption. The normal bacteria of the large intestine synthesize biotin. Cooking changes avidin and makes it susceptible to digestion and unable to interfere with the intestinal absorption of biotin.

    The fact that we have a requirement for biotin has been most clearly shown in 2 situations that result in biotin deficiency:

    Prolonged consumption of raw egg whites and
    IV nutrition without biotin supplementation in patients with short-gut syndrome
    Interestingly, the biotin requirements for normal persons and for persons in special clinical circumstances are not known. Safe and adequate doses have been suggested. “

  24. I found the article :
    “One of my raw food mentors convinced me that there was more than enough biotin in raw egg yolks to compensate for this problem, and I revised my previous recommendation to say that eating whole raw eggs would not pose a problem. This idea made sense to me as many wild animals consume raw eggs with no apparent problems.

    However, recently a subscriber, Dr. Sharma, PhD, who is a biochemist with Bayer, contacted me about this issue. His investigation into the matter revealed that there is not enough biotin in an egg yolk to bind to all the avidin present in the raw whites. He found that 5.7 grams of biotin are required to neutralize all the avidin found in the raw whites of an average-sized egg. There are only about 25 micrograms — or 25 millionths of a gram — of biotin in an average egg yolk. ” from the mercola website.

    I guess you would still be getting a lot of biotin from the raw meats as well?

  25. Thanks for all the suggestions Scott, I shall try them out! I have to admit I do actually love my veggies, the taste and all, not just the butter. I think its also because i can eat lots and lots of them and I don’t feel too full (I like being able to eat lots!) unlike with meats and fats I definitly feel uncomfortable when I occasionally eat a little too much. Part physical and part psychological i guess :) I would really love to hear more about what you eat in a day - and maybe I need to purchase the book to work out how to follow it properly :) It does seem to make sense in theory to me but then I do wonder about things like home made stock which is supposed to be so nourishing and nutritious too :)…and tasty!

    thanks for all your comments and feedback too

  26. 26. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 20th, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    Jad…the action of the amino acid avidin binding with biotin is shown empirically in laboratory analysis.(The bond has also been shown to be beneficial for retaining muscle glycogen and dissolving biocarbons). However the body has an innate ability to properly alter any chemically identified enzyme inhibitor in eggs, allowing them to be eaten in their entirety. The empirircal evidence is presented here by none other than mother nature. Many Primal dieter’s have also eaten up to 30 eggs per day for at least 25 years and exhibit none of the symptoms associated with biotin deficiency. Conclusions based on lab analysis which arrive at contradictions when considered metaphysically should be dimissed. There is no doubting that biotin ( as with all of the B vitamin complex) is an essential nutrient. It has never been shown that the consumption of whole raw eggs can cause a deficiency of this or any other nutrient, in fact quite the contrary.

  27. The depth of this subject is mind-boggling! this is all a fascinating read - thank you for everyone’s knowledge…

  28. 28. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 21st, 2008 at 1:32 am

    Sophie..here goes. My general daily eating schedule.
    Upon waking- 250-300 mls of green vegetable juice (85% celery, 10% parsley, 5% raw honey, occasionally coconut cream.
    45 mins to 1 Hour later- 300grams of raw meat (beef, chicken, fish, lamb, kangaroo) with 3-4 tablespoons of raw fat ( butter, cream, eggs, coconut- usually blended into a sauce). 250mls of kefir.
    At least one hour later- Another 250-200mls of green vegetable juice.
    At least one hour later- Another 300grams of raw meat plus fat. 250 mls of kefir.
    When I am next hungry(usually 1-2 hours later) I will eat a small amount of fruit (usually tomatoes) dates, bananas, papaya, pineapple, oranges etc. with an equal amount of fat-butter, cheese or coconut.
    45 mins to 1 hour later- Another 300grams of raw meat plus fat. 250 mls of kefir.
    2-3 hours later- A milkshake (milk, eggs, honey, cream) or a nut formula (nuts, butter, honey), or a similar ’sweet’ meal. Usually this brings me to the end of the day.
    As you can see, I eat many meals per day, non however make me feel physically full ( in stomach capacity), but all hit the satiety trigger. This is because of their nutrient density. That is my focus, not calories. This quantity and combination of food (especially the meat and fat) is neccesary with my level of activity.
    I do suggest that you purchase the book ‘The Recipe For Living Without Disease’. Do so at http://www.wewant2live.com. Also check out Kieba’s Retro Raw books at http://www.bodytemplebootcamp.com. Both offer good recipe ideas.

  29. 29. Sarah Luck
    Aug 21st, 2008 at 1:42 am

    Wow, there’s no way I could commit to eating that much throughout the day. I’d never get any work done! I eat 3 meals per day and find I don’t need to eat in between - each meal contains at least 1 raw egg, some coconut oil and kefir plus either meat (cooked) and vege, sprouted grain bread or some fruit. I never feel hungry in between meals and never experience cravings - except if i’m doing a lot of work on the computer I get bored and keep visiting the kitchen but this has nothing to do with hunger.
    How do you get any work done between eating, preparing and cleaning up in the kitchen?

  30. 30. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 21st, 2008 at 2:18 am

    Sarah…I definitely need to be organized. The beauty is that generally raw food requires much less preperation than cooked. Juicing is probably an exception. I prepare all of the following day’s food the night before, and juice enough to last 3 days. A general Primal Diet eating schedule is supposed to elicit the gain in body fat required for the removal of deep tissue toxicity. I tend to exercise too much for this to occur as frequently as I would like, especially when I am training specifically (such as now for the Raw Olympics). When my exercise demands decrease, so does my food consumption. Also, as a part of deep tissue toxicity removal, there may be one or two instances per year when I change my diet to induce fat loss. Obviously I would eat much less during these times. The time consumed is one issue often raised, the other is the financial cost. I don’t see either as being too problematic. Both are a cost/benefit issue and in both instances the benefits far outweigh the costs.

  31. what about dehydrated meat?

  32. 32. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 24th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    Dehydrating meat requires a higher temperature than other foods (such as fruit and veg) in order to bring the moisture content down quickly enough to prevent spoilage. This is especially true of fatty meats with a higher moisture content. This causes nutrient loss the same as cooking. Refrigeration is best for meat preservation.

  33. Bugger! I dont think i can eat raw meat but was maybe willing to give it a crack if it was like jerky. Nevermind, i’ll just stick to raw milk and raw egg yolks.

  34. 34. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 25th, 2008 at 1:40 am

    I was once in the exact same predicament, even dried some kangaroo loin strips to get me started. I only ever did it once though. If you are already consuming some raw animal foods (milk and eggs) meat will happen soon if your mindset is right. Sounds like it’s only the texture that your having problems with. Try ‘drying’ some small cubes of beef by leaving it uncovered in the refrigerator for a couple of days. I have done this with some fussy clients who prefer a less moist texture.

  35. Hi Scott - about the raw eggs - I have tried raw eggs several more times - mostly on their own or mixed with some raw meat, however every time I seem to get an upset stomache, and a horrible scratchy dry feeling in my throat! Raw egg yolks are yummy, but I think I am not respecting my body by eating raw egg whites at this time :). I think i might try drying some meat in the fridge as something new. Also I have tried raw brains now - (from healthy pasture fed lamb) obviously, and they went down really well. Brains don’t have much of a taste i found. I quite like offal I am finding…….except kidney - not so much!!

    keep up the great posts everyone as I find them all so interesting, thanks :)

  36. 36. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 26th, 2008 at 8:11 am

    Hi Sophie…the experimentation that you have undertaken is vital. It is required to find your own ideal nutrition prescription. As unusual as it may be, you may have an issue with digesting raw eggs, or specifically the whites. Either way, you obviously have the awareness to listen to your body to find out what it likes and dislikes. This is definitely an issue of individualism. However, it has been noted that the consumption of raw egg yolk, minus the whites, has the potential to disrupt metabolic balance. The symptoms of this include an energy deficit and irritability. Watch out for these as you continue to experiment!
    Raw brains are great, as is most offal. When eating raw animal foods you quickly realise that most of them are fairly neutral in flavour. The cooking process imparts most of the flavour to conventionally prepared foods. The natural flavour is always lost. Rediscovering it (we all have the instinct) is exciting. However, you should always be able to prepare meals that are appetizing with raw ingredients. I don’t suggest that anyone forces themselves to eat something ‘nutritious’ if it doesn’t appeal to them.

  37. 37. Sarah Luck
    Aug 26th, 2008 at 8:34 am

    Hi Scott and Sophie
    I’ve been eating up to 6 raw egg yolks per day for the last year (usual is between 2 and 4 per day). Like you Sophie I react badly to the egg white - raw whole egg gives me explosive diarrhea which is not much fun. I’m fine with just the yolks. I’ve even experimented with one whole egg and the rest yolks but the same thing happens.
    Scott, I have found the opposite situation with raw egg yolks, if I don’t have my egg yolks in the morning for breakfast then I’m tired and irritible. I’d always been a horrible person in the mornings - I wasn’t nice be around until I’d had a few cups of coffee. Once I started the raw egg yolks I no longer needed the coffee (although i did start off by blending them with raw cacoa nibs so that would have given me a bit of a caffeine hit too). Now my partner Phil always notices if I haven’t had my egg yolks (usually because I’ve been busy and run out of eggs). He always jokes that the egg yolks have helped me find the right side of the bed in the mornings.

  38. 38. Scott Wheeler
    Aug 26th, 2008 at 11:56 pm

    Despite the fact that eggs are probably the best compact food in nature, they are not essential in any specific quantity on a Raw food diet. The immature protein in eggs is not utilised for cellular reproduction the way that raw meat is, and therefore should not be substituted for meat more than occasionally. As a supplement however, they are a great natural balance of bioavailable nutrients. Because of the immature proteins, digestion can be affected if raw eggs are consumed cold (ie. refrigerated). The same is true for cold raw milk as protein factions pass undigested into the blood stream causing cramps. I suggest that that you not consume raw milk or eggs in proportions that would cancel or reduce your appetite for raw meat anyway.
    Sarah, the metabolic affect of consuming only the yolks was observed in experiments (performed by Aajonus Vonderplanitz) with animals and humans who ate a 100% raw food diet. Results showed that ‘…metabolism was considerably increased, usually without increasing energy. The side effects were that often hunger increased to a frenzy and dispositions tended to be irritable’. The conclusion stated that ‘…eating the whole raw egg was more nourishing, and better for metabolic and emotional balance’.
    Because these experiments were performed on 100% raw food consumers, the results are relative to what a ‘normal’ balance of metabolic and emotional balance is considered to be. Seeing that you cook at least some of your food (I think you said in a previous post you cook your meat), then your balance would be quite different to a raw food consumer. Therefore it would be feasible that you could experience the opposite effect, ie. an increase in energy and a reduction in irritability relative to your normal balance, once consuming raw nutrients.
    Thats actually a good example of how much better you could expect to feel on an all raw diet. Your current ‘good’ ie. high energy and low irritability, may become your ‘bad’ such as on your coffee regimen. Look out Phil, she could become a high energy bundle of happiness!

  39. Hi,

    Scott, I’m a fellow raw eater, though I believe all things in moderation so I eat a fair amount of cooked too, but my favorite foods are raw organs and seafood, nothing better once you get past the initial brainwashed gross out factor.

    I was recently reading an article on the WAPF website about traditional eating habits of Native Americans and it sounds like they lived rather decadently! Eating large amounts of raw fats from all types of animals. I remember the first time I had raw liver and fat from a freshly killed wild turkey, I don’t think to this day I’ve ever had anything quite so delicious.

    To any nay sayers, you don’t know what you’re missing, and you’ve swallowed big business’ lies, hook, line and sinker, good luck with THAT!

    Always think for your self!

  40. 40. Michael Byrne
    Sep 2nd, 2008 at 7:15 am

    Hi Sarah -

    “Traditional cultures did not have access to modern juicers so would not have consumed leafy greens or cruciferous veges juiced.”

    What traditional cultures did was chew their vegetables and spit out the pulp.. So if you don’t want to buy a modern juicer you don’t have to. It just makes things a little easier. The point is that the fiber in vegetables is not needed on a 100% raw diet which includes meat.

  41. 41. Scott Wheeler
    Sep 2nd, 2008 at 7:58 am

    Good to hear from you Ryan.
    It’s true that native peoples the world over had a penchant for raw animal fats, in fact if it were plentiful enough that would be all that most of them would have needed to consume to remain healthy and disease free. It is even more important today, more so than any other single nutrient, due to it’s cleansing, fueling, lubricating and protective properties, in an increasingly polluted world. This is also the reason why “Traditional Nutrition” is no longer that relevant to today’s changing dietary requirements. We need to consume far more raw fats than even those primitive cultures did because their health was also influenced by far better environmental conditions. We also need to limit greatly the aspects of primitive nutrition which have now been shown to inhibit proper health (such as cooking and all practices which reduce the nutritional content of foods) because we do not share the favourable environmental conditions that they did. It is illogical to assume that I could enjoy excellent health today, consuming the foods that people did in a pre-industrialized era, when I am exposed to thousands of times more pollutants, chemicals, toxins and harmfull substances than they were. Our diet needs to account for these changes.
    As you say, most people will evade the effort required to think beyond what they are told by those with a financial interest in food. They will pay with their health.
    As for the the freshly killed wild turkey, you’re making me hungry!

  42. 42. Scott Wheeler
    Sep 2nd, 2008 at 8:15 am

    Michael…that’s correct.The importance of fiber (insoluble) is largely overrated in most common nutritional forums today. Bacteria is far more important to a healthy digestive tract and stool formation than fibre. Fibre is another phenomenon driven by large food manufacturers (such as processed grain products) trying to justify their otherwise worthless products.

  43. **
    “Traditional cultures did not have access to modern juicers so would not have consumed leafy greens or cruciferous veges juiced.”
    What traditional cultures did was chew their vegetables and spit out the pulp.. So if you don’t want to buy a modern juicer you don’t have to. It just makes things a little easier.
    **

    A big difference between chewing/spitting, and juicing, is saliva. Which will have a big effect on digestion. Can’t speak for raw meat eaters, but for people that eat a mix of raw and cooked healthful food, then I don’t think you can compare juices to whole veges.

    I’d be interested in more info or references on traditional peoples that chew and spit veges, especially what kinds of veges.

  44. 44. Scott Wheeler
    Sep 3rd, 2008 at 2:31 am

    I’ve never understood the argument for saliva secretion opposing the consumption of raw green vegetable juices.
    The first point is that the role of salivary amylase is to break down starch into maltose for utilization as an energy source. Green leafy vegetables DON’T CONTAIN ANY STARCH. At least not in the parts we generally eat. This can be shown in a simple Iodine Starch Test. Therefore this argument is irrelevant. Even if starch were present and you relied upon endogenous (your own bodily) enzymes to digest your food, the pancreas would secrete sufficient enzymes for this purpose (albeit at a great metabolic expense to the body). Even better still, if the vegetables were consumed raw, their own amylase content would promote their proper digestion.
    The second and more important point is this. As a result of their enzyme-free diet, modern humans are basically the only animal on earth that secretes digestive enzymes in the saliva. Ruminents (who consume huge quantities of vegetation) secrete large quantities of saliva completely devoid of enzymes. The exceptions are domesticated animals (dogs, cats, etc.) which we feed a processed, high cabohydrate, heat treated diet to. Enzymes are present in their saliva in about one week after they are removed from their natural, raw carnivorous diet. All other wild creatures rely upon exogenous (food) enzymes to perform the bulk of the digestive process, and therfore show little enzyme secretion in digestive juices. This is the key to health! Modern human digestion makes extravagant demands on the physiology of the body. This energy should be put to much better use. Juicing is the way to consume vitamin and mineral dense vegatable foods with their full quota of enzymes, with the least metabolic expense, and without the fibrous content. Cooked vegatables consume more energy (metabolically) than they provide, leaving a nutritional defecit, as a result of providing no digestive assistance (enzymes).

  45. M.J. and Scott Wheeler, I eat raw meat, though I am not on the primal diet specifically. I must tell you both, I make beef jerky by drying it in the sun. You can also use a simple dryer fashioned from a 100 watt light bulb, a box, and some other stuff. Anyways, the meat does not spoil. Ive made it with no spices, and with spices (garlic…and some times a little salt and pepper) The spices greatly improve the taste and make it just like jerky. You can also make a raw sauce ( tomatoes with garlic is like italian dish) then just hang it out to dry in the hot sun. You can use a screen to keep flies away, but I have done it without and it worked fine. Make sure to use LEAN meat….like Kangaroo (they are lean right?). Fattier meats with go rancid within a week, more or less, because fat requires a much higher temperature to dehydrate (i.e. cooking).
    -Eric

  46. Scott, can you write a post specifically about juicing. I’m intrigued how you marry it into traditional eating. PS your point about traditional environments being different therefore we require more raw fat interests me also. Not least because I love fat.

  47. Scott I am not sure I agree with your argument. For one there’s this human that you call “Modern”. When does that generation begin? What is different about the “Modern” human being. Could it be the large number of chemicals they are exposed to due to over indulgence of the scientific trend? Of which I notice you have used too justify the argument above.
    One curious thing you said was that “Modern human digestion makes extravagant demands on the physiology of the body. This energy should be put to much better use.” What better use dare I ask? Is stripping the plant of it’s wholesomeness the best way to consume plant food? I think just the process of analysing food down to it’s atoms and what not already takes the shine out of eating.
    Traditional diets were not eaten for what their chemical compounds were or did. They were eaten for how they made people feel emotionally, physically and spiritually. Everything was eaten as whole as possible and plants were considered spiritual gifts to us.
    The body of a human being is composed of very intelligent cell and intelligent bacteria so that when taken care of it detoxifies itself and is able to secrete all the enzymes necessary for our digestion. We tend to think that we have to do and add everything into our bodies for our bodies to stay healthy yet we disregard the functions the body is able to do for itself.
    Finally I’d like to add that the FIBROUS CONTENT is very important if plant foods because it regulates the energy release and is fantastic for the health of the bowel. Definitely should not be discounted.

  48. The act of chewing doesnt just trigger saliva production, but also other digestive enzyme flow.
    However as green vegie juices are quite bitter, and bitters tend to also stimulate a lot of digestive enzyme flow I cant see any reason why a green juice should be of any issue.
    Im sure if traditional cultures had access to efficient juicers they would most likely have used them, its just that the technology wasnt available.

  49. Hi Scott, I forgot that you were talking about leafy green juice (but then I’ve been reading bits of this thread not all of it). I was thinking of the ubiquitous carrot juice, and then trying to imagine the kinds of veges that traditional cultures ate by chewing and spitting - I’m still curious about that. I eat raw chickweed, dandelion, and other green leaves but I don’t spit out the fibre.

    However you are talking about modern greens yeah? The traditions I am aware of that eat those plants cook/ed them.

    Also, while I accept what you are saying about the Western science view, I was thinking of other, older sciences like TCM, where saliva has a much deeper import for the body than what you presented in your last post.

  50. What about babies? Oaky, for me,I am all for raw milk, raw cheese, raw cream, reaw honey but the thought of raw meat, especially chicken, turns me green actually, but for arguments sake, I have two children, both still in their infancy with my oldest reaching four soon and the other still only 20 months.

    Do you recommend babies eating raw meat? If so, from what age? The normal recommendation for solids is between the ages of four to six months.

  51. 51. Scott Wheeler
    Sep 3rd, 2008 at 10:26 pm

    Yes…I would like to write a post specifically on juicing. It’s link to traditional eating is also related to post industrial environmental changes. Keep an eye out for it in the coming days. In the meantime, keep eating lots of fat!

  52. 52. Scott Wheeler
    Sep 4th, 2008 at 1:56 am

    Amy…modern means ‘from the present time’. As I stated, I am referring to post-industrialization i.e early 20th century onwards. There is very little biological difference between modern and ancient humans. That’s the whole point, biological evolution has remained very constant during such a time period, environmental conditions have not.
    ‘Modern human digestion’ refers to the fact that since improper foods have become available to us (i.e post- industrialization),humans have devoted a huge amount of enzyme potential to making digestive enymes. This places undue strain on the production of metabolic enzymes, which undertake every other cellular task the body must perform in order to keep all of the organs and tissues functioning. If your asking for a list of these ‘better use’ functions, refer to a biology text as the list is huge.
    Yes, stripping the plant of it’s wholesomeness IS the best way to consume plant food. Just be sure to consume the wholesome part i.e the juice (in the case of green leafy vegetables).
    Yes, eveything was ‘traditionally, eaten whole. There was no option previously, there is now.
    Digestion itself is the process of breaking …’food down to it’s atoms’ and ‘chemical compounds’.
    Whether you choose to think about it or not doesn’t alter these facts.
    And yes we do have to …’add everything into our bodies for our bodies to stay healthy. We are born with a given supply of nutrients in our bodies to facilitate all bodily functions. From then on, as we grow we require these nutrients in much greater quantities. We eat to satisfy the need to replace the nutrients used to achieve the most efficient bodily functions. If you think that your body has the capacity to perform the multitude of tasks neccesary for optimal health by relying on it’s ‘very intelligent cells’, then try a diet of beer and skittles and see how it performs. In an ‘ideal’ unpolluted world, an animals desire for health and wellbeing is guided by the instict to consume nutrient dense and bacteria rich raw foods. The sense of hunger is directed by these foods, and their consumption happens to best support bodily functions. Modern humans eat not from instinct, but from habit and addiction. We are socially conditioned to be germaphobic and consume commercially prepared foods without the full quota of nutrients.
    On you last point, you have generalized my argument against the fibrous content of specifically ‘green leafy vegatables’ to include all ‘plant foods’. I don’t drink fruit juices, as I do note that the fibrous portion of the flesh is important to the slowing of the ’sugar hit’, especially in those with a high sugar content i.e. most fruit juices. However I do not buy into the propoganda that fibre is important to the health of the bowel. A good reference to this can be found in an article titled ‘Fiber Menace….’ concerning the case of John Harvey Kellogg, which was once published on this site.

  53. An excellent article by a very interesting man and a great read:

    http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/fiber-menace-thou-shalt-not-eat-any-abominable-thing

  54. Scott,

    I have been following a Raw diet for nearly 2 years, I have been following Aajonus’ Primal Diet. I have been consuming between 1 - 2 lbs of buffalo and fish (tuna/swordfish/mahi mahi), 16 tablespoons of butter 15-18 raw eggs, cheese, 32 oz of vegetable juice and a little fruit coconut cream and honey, and I have been enjoying the natural muscle gain from this diet with out exercise.

    I am interested in this RAW Olympics, how does someone get involved in this??

    Thanks

  55. 55. Scott Wheeler
    Sep 10th, 2008 at 1:34 am

    Jason, great to hear. Go to http://www.rawgames.org to register your interest in the Raw Olympics. I will see if I can post a flyer on my Flex Rx Clinical Fitness mini-site. The link is posted somewhere above.

    Scott.

  56. Hi jason I have always been fascinated by Aajonus’ concept of gaining muscle without excercising. I mean can it really be done, do you keep toned and fit? Although I enjoy excercising and probably wouldn’t give it up, the concept is appealing at times!!
    also do you eat that much every day??? it seems alot! just curious as always….

  57. 57. Scott Wheeler
    Sep 10th, 2008 at 8:07 am

    Hi Sophie…It all depends on your definition of exercise. In exercise science terms, exercise is…vigorous muscular exertion performed with the intent of making an inroad into the body’s functional ability, in order to stimulate a physiological adaptive response in order to decelerate the loss of,to maintain or to improve said functional ability.
    Therefore vigorous muscular exertion is a ‘necessary cause’ of hypertrophy or muscle growth, and hence cannot occur without first being stimulated. HOWEVER…this is all relative to an individual’s genetic potential, so arguably you could increase muscle mass i.e be toned and fit, with good nutrition alone if you were operating at a level below your normal homeostatic state. This is obviously true of people with disease which would cause a lack of regenerative capacity, which are those to which Aajonus refers. If however you wish to cause an overcompensation of your functional ability beyond what is normal, then inroading (i.e) exercising this function would be a prerequisite.
    What I have found though is that most people who choose to exercise do so at a superfluous level. Too much exercise causes your returns to diminish just as easily as too little exercise does. An ideal prescription is necessary for exercise just as it is in any other branch of medical science.

  58. Hello,

    I haven’t really exercised in almost 8 years, well pretty much since football where I over did it.
    Sophie that is pretty much what I eat on a daily basis, and its expensive but maybe being a good steward of God’s Temple is, just priorities. Since I started making good educated choices about food, I have regained the muscle and mass and then some. 8 years ago I was 6′1 215 and 6 % body fat, recently checked 6′1 230 and 15% body fat. The amazing thing is the definition came back, with more in the chest area and I still feel and look skinny.

    Hopefully with Scotts help maybe I can find a workout that will take my God given body to its potential, all for the Glory of God to bring truth to the lies of the food industry.

  59. 59. Cathy Mifsud
    Sep 11th, 2008 at 7:48 am

    Hello Jason
    just wondering, do you eat all that food in one day or one week?
    regards,
    Cathy

  60. This conversation continues on Scott’s new MarketPlace mini-site:

    http://flexrx.nourished.com.au/2008/08/06/the-primal-diet/

    Please come over and continue this riveting discussion.

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